- July 20, 2014 at 8:32 am #570
I’ll use this folder as to not clutter up the other general folders with all my fodder 🙂
KristopherJuly 22, 2014 at 1:38 pm #578
Almost all of the time I can remember the majority of details in Dreaming.
Yet…And I’m curious if anyone else experiences this…
There are places I visit in Dreaming where minimal recall is encountered. I recall going to these locations, often times like it’s a place to learn more, and thinking to myself, “Ah, I’m back here again.” Yet, upon awakening, I can’t recall even a bit of what went on, other than being in the same location at the onset of the Dream.
Every now and then, I will remember what was being taught, and it’s something that applies to my waking life; how to handle a situation, etc. Yet, for the most part, it’s pretty vague.
Does anyone else do this? Visit the same location, over and over, and it’s like a class of some sort?
I often wonder if the Dreamer is Dreaming me, here in this physical, and not the other way around.
KristopherJuly 22, 2014 at 2:21 pm #579
Robert A. Monroe talks about similar experiences where he wakes up into instructional like classes during an OBE. And you are correct, Tom Campbell will also validate that we enter into specific instructional information sets engineered to give us a type of meaningful explanation regarding certain key aspects of our life.
As we discussed earlier with the dream/datastream metaphor. In my early works, I talked about the “dreaming spectrum” which is what I was identifying as an information system kind of like the Electromagnetic Spectrum where there were specific frequencies that we could tune into yielded different properties within the dreaming experience. Hence the datastream effect as discussed.
It’s my “belief” that in this hierarchy of information there are low-level dream bands that deal with the more desired ego based experiences: fear, fantasy, desire which attracts a lot of people to those focus states.
As we progress upward in the other information bands, we start to encounter the phenomenological spooky action from a distance qualities in dreaming such as shared dreaming and precognition.
What I do not have is an exact science, only self-evident that dreaming is structured in such a way that we have a spectrum of information during sleep by which we access. I do believe that the higher-order areas tend to be where we encounter very profound experiences such as an education system. I know the Monroe Institute has their own focus state map of these states, and I also believe that the Buddhists have broken down these realms in a more metaphorical religious outlook.
Here’s the Monroe breakdown: http://www.monroeinstitute.org/resources/overview-of-focus-levels
Like you, I’ve had many dreams again dealing with instructional information and life lessons. Some of these have been so profound that they have literally hit me like a sledge hammer in terms of what the information was revealing.
Some of the most profound offerings in these educational dreams were all precognitive dream specific examples so very powerful delivery of very coherent and useful information helping me understand such an unusual phenomena.
Why there is an amnesic effect is likely centred around usual difficulties with dream recall, I am sure you remember some where others you forget but then the information could be happening in a deeper frequency of sleep like perhaps NREM in delta vs REM in theta. We just need to become more accustomed to functioning in these deeper information systems, you are already in them.
I’ve also conducted entire classes myself in these educational states many of the lectures and offerings again related to dreaming and how dreams function from that perspective. I’ve walked up to chalkboards and have written things like “Dreaming 101”, or “This is a Dream” then addressed an entire class of enthusiastic students eager to learn about dreaming. And when I say I’ve done this a lot, it’s probably an understatement. I’ve caught myself becoming lucid in some of these lectures and then I realize I am actually teaching this class “again” and I don’t break character and have often wondered how many times that I teach this class unconsciously.
Much of what I write about stems from what I’ve gained in those classes such as how dreams are thoughts that form the content of the dream. How we render thought into various sensory simulations and how to control our thoughts using intent.
I think we are often both the student and the teacher within these altered states. Who and what we are is very complex and amazing.July 23, 2014 at 12:57 pm #580
How many have you seen?
I’ve only seen four; Inception, The Matrix, Vanilla Sky and Avatar.
KristopherJuly 24, 2014 at 1:00 am #583
There are a few I haven’t seen, this is what I’ve seen from that list.
What Dreams May Come
Eternal Sunshine of The Spotless Mind
InceptionJuly 27, 2014 at 8:37 am #604
I’ll post this here as to not clutter up other threads.
It’s been mentioned in regards to Dreaming better to use supplements and I’ll even include other drugs such as mind altering substances.
I’ve tried many different methods, and I won’t mention them as the majority are illegal, and yes, they assist a bit. Yet…
They perhaps assist in getting lucid, at least for me, yet they’ve taken away the ability to really hold the Dream as such. Meaning, yes, I’m lucid, yet I’m still at the mercy of the Dreaming situation. Similar to a baby who’s aware of what’s going on, yet can’t crawl or walk or do much else. I enjoy, more than anything else, the ability to participate freely in whatever is happening in Dreaming. I don’t really attempt to ‘control’ the Dream, yet have the ability to do as I please. Supplements and drugs may make me lucid, yet not much else.
It’s the same with HemiSync or anything else. I’ve not used any of these tools. Again, as stated in another thread, I’m a huge fan of using unbending intent. I want no ‘external’ props and such. Just focus; focus on Dreaming while waking, sleeping, etc., etc., and lucidity will eventually be realized. May take awhile, and most give up to soon, but it works.
KristopherJuly 29, 2014 at 8:10 am #608
I’m with you on the intent, it works well with dreaming. As for drugs, nope can’t say that I have used drugs for dreaming. If anything when I did smoke some weed, it made it harder to remember my dreams. The same with alchohol hence why I seldom ever drink because it takes away the rewards of dreaming. I tried Hemi-Sync but I don’t click with it, so no results. Maybe I never spend enough time with it as I was already having lucid dream results just using attention focusing techniques.
Will be interesting to see based on the new research where they are stimulating lucid dreaming electronically if there will be a more scientific solution for those who do not lucid dream. I do believe the best methods are the natural ones that require only focusing our intent and our attention during sleep.
IanJuly 29, 2014 at 5:30 pm #609
Well, hard drugs like datura that basically force you to “dream” are something I’d shy away from but as I see it, I have no problem with needing to eat or take medication when necessary so I see nothing inherently wrong with supplements of various kinds. A supplement/drug is just a very specific dietary item. Just as an athelete doesn’t just eat whatever if he wants to reach top performance, there is often room for improving or adapting the operation of our brain by changing what sort of substances we ingest. You mentioned alcohol and pot Ian; both substances that generally speaking prevent REM sleep and therefore negatively impact dreaming. The thing about that though, is that everytime you prevent REM the body decides to try and catch up at a later time. One of the greatest difficulties with quiting alcohol is that an alcoholic has so much REM to catch up on that he can get lost in a nightmare for days. Some people are able to use this to induce what they describe as effortless lucid dreams (I never tried so can’t comment). I certainly think intention is very important and I’ve experienced most of the things I experienced with supplements, without supplements, at least once. Tell me something though Kris, what are you current dreams like, and what were they like before you trained yourself for lucidity/memory? In terms of things like brightness/detail, sense of presence/immersion, speed/stability, etc? I’m curious.
July 30, 2014 at 9:35 am #617
- This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by andrergsanchez.
Tell me something though Kris, what are you current dreams like, and what were they like before you trained yourself for lucidity/memory? In terms of things like brightness/detail, sense of presence/immersion, speed/stability, etc? I’m curious.
Well, that’s a tough question to answer as each night Dreaming is different. Immediately after entering normal dreaming I ‘awaken’ into Dreaming or lucidity and usually follow whatever is going on in that Dreaming scene. I Dream of hiking in the woods or desert, I’ve Dreamed of driving my truck to specific locations (Dreaming while driving is a wild experience,) I’ve Dreamed I’ve been in church during mass, etc. At times the scenes are exactly as they are in the waking world (if I’m familiar with them) and often times they are not. I’ve Dreamed of future events that the next day have turned out exactly as they did in Dreaming. I’ve used all my senses to touch, taste, smell, hear and see items in Dreaming, have put my hand through things as if I wasn’t real or the object wasn’t real or solid, or, used my intent (what I call it) to make either me or the object solid and touch and examine it as one would do in the waking world. I’ve Dreamed within a Dream, or as I call it Dreaming another Dream, meaning changing the scene or the entire location of Dreaming with the blink of an eye. Now, that’s just in Dreaming what I’d call this waking world.
I’ve also had tons of Dreaming which I can only describe as Dreaming ‘out of this world.’ I’ve Dreamed of being on the moon, different planets, etc. This is pretty wild as I don’t consider myself a very creative guy, yet if dreaming or Dreaming IS thought, how could my mind conjour up such wild scenery or events? Such as being on a planet of very vivid colors and exploring the texture of the ground which felt like nothing I’d ever touched before. That, or lying on the ground and gazing up at other suns, moons or planets. Even during these Dreams my awareness/perception is very keen and I can recall very minute details upon awakening.
Another interesting aspect of Dreaming is Dreaming with other people. Most are not aware they are Dreaming and are pretty much like zombies 🙂 Very, very few people I meet (and this may be just my character as I usually don’t seek out other humans in Dreaming) are actually lucid in Dreaming as I am. Of these, even less can do much in the Dream other than hold a conversation and tell you that yes, they are lucid in Dreaming. (What I label as not having control of the Dreaming body.)
With that said, I have met a group of…people?…or something in Dreaming that often appear as people and who teach me in Dreaming. What do they teach? Awareness/perception. They actually give me tasks, thing to do while Dreaming. When I first began, they taught me how to ‘move’ the Dreaming body in Dreaming. It started as simple exercises as moving from one room to another, as in a house. Practicing on going through the walls, or actually opening the doors as in waking and entering the other room, and then lastly just Willing or Intending myself in a split second to actually be in the other room with no ‘travel’ required. This was expanded to bigger and broader tasks, as in being on the top of a mountain. Actually hopping or moving in Dreaming from the top of one big rock to another. This became even more subtle to the point of moving my Dreaming body, awareness, perception, whatever it is…to something like perching on the tip of a leaf on a tree. My current project is listed below.
Here’s a quick, funny story about that. One day I was napping of the couch/sofa and awoke hovering just above my physical body. (Robert Monroe labels these as OOBE’s or out of body experiences, but I just label them Dreaming.) I quickly positioned myself standing up next to my sleeping body on the couch/sofa. I watched myself sleep for a bit, but as I’d done this hundred of times before it became boring very quickly and decided to move outside. I moved out under our hummingbird feeder and a bird came to feed. I telepathically asked this little guy if I could fly with her. She agreed and we took off. I was a bit clumsy at first, but soon I got the hang of it. We went from tree to tree perching on tiny little limbs. It was a great exercise in moving my Dreaming body as hummingbirds can fly quickly and are very accurate and precise in their movements. After we were done I stood out back gazing inside the house and saw my leg hanging up on the back of the sofa, still snoring away 😉 But, enough of that…
Back to your questions. Prior to becoming lucid all the time I have only a vague recollection. What I remember is that they were mostly out of focus, had a lot of human drama with other people, and most of all, I was ‘stuck’ in the dream, meaning, I just had to go with the flow. I didn’t have the awareness to really do anything in the dream as I do now.
In regards to your last questions, I think I covered that above. My senses are as sharp in Dreaming as they are in waking. Now, of course that’s an odd comment as it’s all relative as to how ‘aware’ each of us are in waking or Dreaming. In anything, lucid Dreaming has sharpened my waking awareness to pay attention to things as this is what I do in Dreaming. IMHO, this is the key, the key to practice. To learn to hold our Dreaming awareness and perception for as long as we want on any object just as we do in waking. Yet again though, with that said, most of us don’t really pay attention in waking either! The magic is in our mind, and all we need to do is glance at something and our brain does the rest; meaning, it puts it all together as, ‘Kris is looking at chair, and now the sofa, and now, etc.’ Carlos called this skimming and it’s what we do. One of the benefits of meditation and other practices is to learn to hold our attentive capacity. I’m a bit of a nutter/weirdo/whacko, and I do a lot of this in waking and Dreaming. In waking I’ll get out in the backyard early in the morning, down in the grass, and gaze at a blade of grass with a dew drop on it. When I’m done with this, fixating this image in my mind, I’ll reach out and touch it. Feel the blade of grass, the cold water on it, etc.
In regards to the above, this is what I’ve been working on a lot in Dreaming. The ability to recall something I did in waking, bring myself to that location, and ‘create’ in my own mind or something, the exact replica of what was seen in waking. I’m at the point now where I’ve created my own little Dreaming world made up of items from the waking world. It’s a location in the woods/forest where I’ve spent a lot of time in waking gazing at very specific items. It’s like decorating an empty home 😉 As mentioned above, all the items I’ve truly focused on hold the same attributes to all my senses just as they would in waking. An example would be a particularly odd shaped pine cone. In Dreaming it looks and smells exactly as it does in waking, and if I poke my finger on one of the spines it ‘hurts’ just as in waking. It’s true, I’ve lost my mind…or perhaps I’ve found it?
Ok, enough for now. Hopefully this answered your questions.
KristopherJuly 30, 2014 at 9:42 am #618
It was mentioned in another thread in regards to sex in Dreaming. Before I was lucid this would occur all the time. After I started becoming lucid women would attempt to attract me to sex and I learned to ‘just say no.’ LOL! Soon, I’d just blow people off who attempted to ‘pick me up’ as such. Now-a-days, this never occurs.
IMHO, sex in Dreaming may be fun, yet I regard this as a test of sorts. We keep doing what we do until we choose to do differently. Then, it’s not even presented to us anymore. I mean, I’ve had sex, and still do, enough in the waking world. Why waste my attention in Dreaming on doing something I can do while waking? Another point; yes, intimacy and sex is good in Dreaming, yet I’ve had more pleasurable experiences doing other things in Dreaming than just fu**ing and sex. I’ve visited several other ‘worlds in Dreaming’ that by just being there gives me an orgasmic sense much greater and profound than any sex act.
But, that’s just me.
KristopherJuly 30, 2014 at 9:45 am #619
Ok, one more post. 🙂
In regards to the previous comments, I see everything, waking or Dreaming, as a ‘test’ to each of us. We ‘pass’ the test, whatever that means, we evolve or move forward. If we don’t, it’s repeated. One could also label this the ‘rung theory.’ Life is like a ladder and we need to progress up each rung on the ladder. Sure, each rung may hold fascinating adventure, mind-blowing sex, etc., etc., yet IMHO we need to keep climbing.
But again, that’s just me.
KristopherJuly 30, 2014 at 10:40 am #620
Thanks a lot for that Kris, that was awesome.
With regards to dream sex, I personally don’t experience it much. I thought of focusing on that before sleep because I figured it might be easier to stay focused/interested in something arousing and therefore still be on some level awake when the senses start inverting. It turned out that for me, that time at least, my entire mind got “aroused”, even though not in a sex dream as such. Eroticism is one area of exploration but I completely agree with you that there is a whole lot more of interest to explore. Personally this is fairly low on my to do list at this particular point in my life. Not sure I agree with the “everything is a test and we have to keep climbing the ladder” theory but who knows, maybe?January 28, 2015 at 12:29 pm #643
Well, so much for our discussions 🙂
Dreaming has been going great, just no desire to write about it or speak of it. I’ve also been spending a lot of time in a particular Dream world, a world created by my own intent.
Curious if anyone here is familiar with the bardos of death, as described by the Tibetan Buddhists? I’ve been attempting to visit these realms in Dreaming. Anyone do this?
KristopherAugust 2, 2015 at 9:19 am #644
Sure is quiet around here. Ian, I see the main page and archives are about a year old. Anything new??
KristopherAugust 2, 2015 at 9:25 am #645
I’ve started a group on Facebook in regards to lucid dreaming, astral travel, astral projection, out of body experience, etc., if anyone is interested in joining. Currently, I’m just posting links to informational pages in regards to the ‘how-to’s’ for lucid dreaming, etc. Perhaps if it gains interest I’ll begin posting personal dreaming experiences.
Here’s the link to the page: https://www.facebook.com/lucid.dreaming.forum
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